by CWK
Does forgiveness wipe away consequences? What is the relationship between forgiveness and consequences? I've been ruminating on this a good deal the last few years. Below is an email exchange I had with a wise pastor friend. My original email is in lower case, and his responses are in upper case.
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I have been musing on a difficult topic for the last few months, and have seen lots of situations in ministry where this needs to be clarified. The question is this: how do we differentiate between forgiveness and consequences... or should we? For example, if an Elder sins then the congregation might certainly forgive him, but a consequence of his sin may be that he loses his office.
There are some instances where forgiveness and consequences seem to overlap. If a woman cheats on her husband, he has a Biblical right to seek divorce. However, if he ‘forgave’ her completely, then part of this forgiveness would seem to include reconciling the marriage.
YES. AND THE CONSEQUENCE MIGHT BE HER ANGER, DISTANCE, COOLNESS, GRIEF AND LOSS OF TRUST IN HIM AND THE TIME NEEDED TO EARN TRUST AGAIN. IDEALLY THEIR MARRIAGE COULD BE RECONCILED AND GROW TO NEW LEVELS OF TRUST AND INTIMACY.
Then, there are some Biblical examples where someone is forgiven, but there are certain consequences they have to live with. David’s adultery and then murder did not mean that he never was forgiven. He is able to exclaim, "“Blessed is the man whose transgressions are not held against him... (Psalm 32).” Nathan told him plainly that his sin ‘was put away (2 Samuel 12).’ However, the ‘sword never departed from his house.’ This seems to be an example where the sins were forgiven, but at the same time the consequences (discipline? punishment?) were still in effect.
YES AGAIN! I THINK GOD USES CONSEQUENCES TO DISCIPLINE US AND TEACH US NEW THINGS.
IF A MAN ABUSES HIS WIFE OR CHILD AND SHE/HE SUFFERS PERMANENT INJURY AND LATER FORGIVES HIM THEY STILL LIVE WITH THE DISABILITY AND SCARS. THE SAME HAPPENS WITH VERBAL AND EMOTIONAL WOUNDS. THERE WILL HOPEFULLY BE SOME/MUCH HEALING OF THE LATTER OVER TIME BUT COMPLETE HEALING MAY ONLY COME IN GLORY.
I have always been told in evangelical circles that forgiveness meant the abrogation (total cancellation) of consequences. Clearly this is not valid, as the example of David shows. However, some of the consequences of our sins are certainly annulled, aren’t they?
YES. GOD’S FORGIVENESS OF OUR SINS MEANS THAT HE TURNS AWAY FROM JUDGEMENT AND OFFERS US GRACE AS HE DID SO OFTEN WITH THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. BUT GOD DOES NOT USUALLY UNDO PHYSICAL OR EMOTIONAL DAMAGE. HEALING OF THAT TAKES TIME. I MAY BE FORGIVEN BUT STILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE REGRET AND REMORSE THAT I RUINED A GOOD MARRIAGE OR HARMED A CHILD. THAT IS WHERE SHAME COMES IN. GUILT IS HEALED BY FORGIVENESS, SHAME BY ACCEPTANCE AND GRACE. THE LATTER OFTEN TAKES LONGER. SATAN LOVES TO BEAT US WITH SHAME!
Here is my question: is it possible to completely untangle forgiveness and consequences, and to say that they are two separate spheres entirely? Or, is there a place of mysterious overlap?
YOU PUT IT WELL. THEY ARE PARTLY TWO SPHERES BUT THERE IS AN AREA OF CLEAR, AND IN SOME PLACES, MYSTERIOUS OVERLAP.
Here is the main thing I am struggling with: forgiveness (our sins being forgotten, atoned for, washed away, etc. seems to imply in its very definition the removal of consequences. If a sin is completely forgotten, then how can it continue to have bearing on the present?
I HOPE WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOVE ANSWERS THIS QUESTION.
Does forgiveness wipe away consequences? What is the relationship between forgiveness and consequences? I've been ruminating on this a good deal the last few years. Below is an email exchange I had with a wise pastor friend. My original email is in lower case, and his responses are in upper case.
---------------------------------
I have been musing on a difficult topic for the last few months, and have seen lots of situations in ministry where this needs to be clarified. The question is this: how do we differentiate between forgiveness and consequences... or should we? For example, if an Elder sins then the congregation might certainly forgive him, but a consequence of his sin may be that he loses his office.
There are some instances where forgiveness and consequences seem to overlap. If a woman cheats on her husband, he has a Biblical right to seek divorce. However, if he ‘forgave’ her completely, then part of this forgiveness would seem to include reconciling the marriage.
YES. AND THE CONSEQUENCE MIGHT BE HER ANGER, DISTANCE, COOLNESS, GRIEF AND LOSS OF TRUST IN HIM AND THE TIME NEEDED TO EARN TRUST AGAIN. IDEALLY THEIR MARRIAGE COULD BE RECONCILED AND GROW TO NEW LEVELS OF TRUST AND INTIMACY.
Then, there are some Biblical examples where someone is forgiven, but there are certain consequences they have to live with. David’s adultery and then murder did not mean that he never was forgiven. He is able to exclaim, "“Blessed is the man whose transgressions are not held against him... (Psalm 32).” Nathan told him plainly that his sin ‘was put away (2 Samuel 12).’ However, the ‘sword never departed from his house.’ This seems to be an example where the sins were forgiven, but at the same time the consequences (discipline? punishment?) were still in effect.
YES AGAIN! I THINK GOD USES CONSEQUENCES TO DISCIPLINE US AND TEACH US NEW THINGS.
IF A MAN ABUSES HIS WIFE OR CHILD AND SHE/HE SUFFERS PERMANENT INJURY AND LATER FORGIVES HIM THEY STILL LIVE WITH THE DISABILITY AND SCARS. THE SAME HAPPENS WITH VERBAL AND EMOTIONAL WOUNDS. THERE WILL HOPEFULLY BE SOME/MUCH HEALING OF THE LATTER OVER TIME BUT COMPLETE HEALING MAY ONLY COME IN GLORY.
I have always been told in evangelical circles that forgiveness meant the abrogation (total cancellation) of consequences. Clearly this is not valid, as the example of David shows. However, some of the consequences of our sins are certainly annulled, aren’t they?
YES. GOD’S FORGIVENESS OF OUR SINS MEANS THAT HE TURNS AWAY FROM JUDGEMENT AND OFFERS US GRACE AS HE DID SO OFTEN WITH THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. BUT GOD DOES NOT USUALLY UNDO PHYSICAL OR EMOTIONAL DAMAGE. HEALING OF THAT TAKES TIME. I MAY BE FORGIVEN BUT STILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE REGRET AND REMORSE THAT I RUINED A GOOD MARRIAGE OR HARMED A CHILD. THAT IS WHERE SHAME COMES IN. GUILT IS HEALED BY FORGIVENESS, SHAME BY ACCEPTANCE AND GRACE. THE LATTER OFTEN TAKES LONGER. SATAN LOVES TO BEAT US WITH SHAME!
Here is my question: is it possible to completely untangle forgiveness and consequences, and to say that they are two separate spheres entirely? Or, is there a place of mysterious overlap?
YOU PUT IT WELL. THEY ARE PARTLY TWO SPHERES BUT THERE IS AN AREA OF CLEAR, AND IN SOME PLACES, MYSTERIOUS OVERLAP.
Here is the main thing I am struggling with: forgiveness (our sins being forgotten, atoned for, washed away, etc. seems to imply in its very definition the removal of consequences. If a sin is completely forgotten, then how can it continue to have bearing on the present?
I HOPE WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOVE ANSWERS THIS QUESTION.
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